argh, defending Uhura/Spock AGAIN
Aug. 1st, 2010 06:16 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
gmonkey42Sometimes I don't know why I bother having the kirk/spock comm on my f-list. People keep making posts (or linking to them in this case) bashing other ships, especially Spock/Uhura. Here's the latest one [ETA: the post has been f-locked and I can't access it any more - see below]. Here's my rebuttal to the arguments that came up in this post, just like in every other anti-S/U post:
1. Having a boyfriend weakens female characters
I agree that writers usually handle it poorly when two major characters, one female and one male, become romantically involved - they turn the female character into an accessory for the male character's development. BUT this is part of a larger problem where writers tend to pay more attention to male characters in general. The solution isn't that female characters shouldn't be allowed to have boyfriends, which seems to be the logical conclusion of this argument. The solution is for writers - and society - to stop thinking women are defined by our relationships whereas men are independent individuals. I think it's awesome that Uhura gets to have a boyfriend who's also a well-developed character. We shouldn't have to choose between a female character being competent or having romantic relationships.
And I think what we've seen so far with the new movie is promising. Uhura gets to do cool things that move the plot forward, just like everyone else. Orci & Kurtzman had seven major characters (eight if you count both Spocks) to cram in and I think they did an excellent job of making every one of those characters an important part of the story. Uhura's part was to intercept and translate the transmission about the Narada destroying the Klingon armada, which meant the Enterprise had its shields up when it arrived at Vulcan and therefore survived the initial attack. And then she was in charge of communications for the rest of the mission, though we didn't get to see a lot of that.
I don't get the argument that the side plot where she and Spock were involved somehow cancels out all the other things she got to do, which seems to be what the post is arguing. If the scenes with Spock were Uhura's only appearances in the film, I would agree but they weren't, she had things to do that had nothing to do with Spock. Yes, she also provided emotional support for Spock but it didn't really further his characterization any more than it did hers. It gave the audience a look at a more emotional side of both characters.
2. There was no chemistry between Spock and Uhura in TOS and Spock had other relationships in TOS
Bull. Crap. Watch the singing & lyre-playing scene in Charlie X and see the expression on Spock's face and tell me he's not totally into her. They dropped it in later episodes and Spock never showed genuine romantic interest (i.e. not while hopped up on spores, de-evolved, etc.) in a female character later. I guess because they were really gung-ho with the "Vulcans actually don't even experience emotions" thing. Except they kind of retconned that in the first movie when Spock tried to do Kolinahr but couldn't.
As for Spock allegedly being interested in or involved with women other than Uhura (I don't get why this is even supposed to be relevant - people can have more than one relationship in their lives) Chapel had a crush on Spock and he was annoyed by it. He never liked her back! At best, he tolerated having her around because they worked together. And I can't believe the OP would bring up Leila Kalomi as an example of another relationship Spock had. All we know from This Side of Paradise is Spock and Leila used to know each other and she had a thing for him and then she freaking drugged him to make him her love slave. Seriously, imagine their genders are reversed and see how creepy it is. We don't know that he was ever interested in Leila - the spores also made him disobey Kirk; they didn't make him show his inner feelings, they just messed him up.
LOL, speaking of that episode, Kirk has to emotionally compromise Spock and then Spock smacks him around. That's awesome.
[ETA: I forgot about the Romulan commander. They legitimately had the hots for each other. But still, see below. All it proves is Spock is capable of liking women, which doesn't exactly weaken the case for him & Uhura.]
ANYWAY the new movies are a reboot so nothing that happened in TOS is all that relevant. The characters are the same people with the same personalities but the Narada incident, which happened when they were young children, could have changed anything. And the crew met each other under different circumstances in the reboot. It's totally plausible that some of them might wind up having different relationships with each other.
3. Spock is Uhura's professor which makes their relationship unethical
WE DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW THAT. All we know is Uhura's one line that refers to the fact that she was Spock's student. WAS. PAST TENSE. Spock is a computer programmer, why would he be a professor in the Xenolinguistics department? It's perfectly reasonable to assume Uhura took ONE class that Spock taught some time ago and neither of them had any reason to expect he'd have any authority over her after that class was over. A student dating a young teacher in another department: it suddenly doesn't sound all that bad, right? There are a lot of fanfics where Uhura is Spock's TA but there's nothing in the actual movie to support that.
4. Spock is cheating on T'Pring with Uhura
Like point 3, we don't know that. There's nothing in the movie about it. It's plausible that Uhura and T'Pring know about each other and are fine with it. In Amok Time, T'Pring already had another boyfriend - and none of the Vulcans seemed to have any objection to this - and Spock didn't have any particular interest in T'Pring, he was just going along with what his culture expected of him. And he didn't want to die of Pon Farr. So if he found a potential partner on Earth, like Sarek did, he could have already broken the bond with T'Pring, or he could have done exactly what T'Pring did before the events of Amok Time.
Anyway, I don't hear anyone objecting to him cheating on T'Pring with Kirk...
5. Er, this thing:
OK, YOU THINK HE SHOULD HAVE KISSED KIRK INSTEAD OF UHURA, WE GET IT.
It's weird that the OP goes on to argue that by being Spock's girlfriend, Uhura usurps McCoy's position in the trio. Either being Spock's girlfriend relegates her to the role of just-a-girlfriend OR elevates her above McCoy but I don't see how it can be both. This just smacks of the "throw everything at it and see what sticks" method of argument.
[Edited to add #3b: It's out of character for Spock and Uhura to break the rules
Right, because they totally never break the rules.]
So yeah. Ship Kirk/Spock all you want - I sure do - but I don't see the point of ragging on Uhura/Spock. They're acting like Harry/Hermione shippers. And I think we can all agree nobody wants to act like Harry/Hermione shippers.
ETA: Here's great post covering the race issues. Which are very important; I hesitate to talk about them myself because I feel like I'm not really qualified to talk about them in detail. But rawles is and she makes excellent points.
ETA: Ohh, the post on K/S linking to the essay in the OP's journal was deleted at the request of the OP who "did not intend to start a ship war." COULD'VE FOOLED ME! She didn't intend for anyone to disagree with her, you mean. Pff. And the OP has f-locked the post in her journal.
1. Having a boyfriend weakens female characters
I agree that writers usually handle it poorly when two major characters, one female and one male, become romantically involved - they turn the female character into an accessory for the male character's development. BUT this is part of a larger problem where writers tend to pay more attention to male characters in general. The solution isn't that female characters shouldn't be allowed to have boyfriends, which seems to be the logical conclusion of this argument. The solution is for writers - and society - to stop thinking women are defined by our relationships whereas men are independent individuals. I think it's awesome that Uhura gets to have a boyfriend who's also a well-developed character. We shouldn't have to choose between a female character being competent or having romantic relationships.
And I think what we've seen so far with the new movie is promising. Uhura gets to do cool things that move the plot forward, just like everyone else. Orci & Kurtzman had seven major characters (eight if you count both Spocks) to cram in and I think they did an excellent job of making every one of those characters an important part of the story. Uhura's part was to intercept and translate the transmission about the Narada destroying the Klingon armada, which meant the Enterprise had its shields up when it arrived at Vulcan and therefore survived the initial attack. And then she was in charge of communications for the rest of the mission, though we didn't get to see a lot of that.
I don't get the argument that the side plot where she and Spock were involved somehow cancels out all the other things she got to do, which seems to be what the post is arguing. If the scenes with Spock were Uhura's only appearances in the film, I would agree but they weren't, she had things to do that had nothing to do with Spock. Yes, she also provided emotional support for Spock but it didn't really further his characterization any more than it did hers. It gave the audience a look at a more emotional side of both characters.
2. There was no chemistry between Spock and Uhura in TOS and Spock had other relationships in TOS
Bull. Crap. Watch the singing & lyre-playing scene in Charlie X and see the expression on Spock's face and tell me he's not totally into her. They dropped it in later episodes and Spock never showed genuine romantic interest (i.e. not while hopped up on spores, de-evolved, etc.) in a female character later. I guess because they were really gung-ho with the "Vulcans actually don't even experience emotions" thing. Except they kind of retconned that in the first movie when Spock tried to do Kolinahr but couldn't.
As for Spock allegedly being interested in or involved with women other than Uhura (I don't get why this is even supposed to be relevant - people can have more than one relationship in their lives) Chapel had a crush on Spock and he was annoyed by it. He never liked her back! At best, he tolerated having her around because they worked together. And I can't believe the OP would bring up Leila Kalomi as an example of another relationship Spock had. All we know from This Side of Paradise is Spock and Leila used to know each other and she had a thing for him and then she freaking drugged him to make him her love slave. Seriously, imagine their genders are reversed and see how creepy it is. We don't know that he was ever interested in Leila - the spores also made him disobey Kirk; they didn't make him show his inner feelings, they just messed him up.
LOL, speaking of that episode, Kirk has to emotionally compromise Spock and then Spock smacks him around. That's awesome.
[ETA: I forgot about the Romulan commander. They legitimately had the hots for each other. But still, see below. All it proves is Spock is capable of liking women, which doesn't exactly weaken the case for him & Uhura.]
ANYWAY the new movies are a reboot so nothing that happened in TOS is all that relevant. The characters are the same people with the same personalities but the Narada incident, which happened when they were young children, could have changed anything. And the crew met each other under different circumstances in the reboot. It's totally plausible that some of them might wind up having different relationships with each other.
3. Spock is Uhura's professor which makes their relationship unethical
WE DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW THAT. All we know is Uhura's one line that refers to the fact that she was Spock's student. WAS. PAST TENSE. Spock is a computer programmer, why would he be a professor in the Xenolinguistics department? It's perfectly reasonable to assume Uhura took ONE class that Spock taught some time ago and neither of them had any reason to expect he'd have any authority over her after that class was over. A student dating a young teacher in another department: it suddenly doesn't sound all that bad, right? There are a lot of fanfics where Uhura is Spock's TA but there's nothing in the actual movie to support that.
4. Spock is cheating on T'Pring with Uhura
Like point 3, we don't know that. There's nothing in the movie about it. It's plausible that Uhura and T'Pring know about each other and are fine with it. In Amok Time, T'Pring already had another boyfriend - and none of the Vulcans seemed to have any objection to this - and Spock didn't have any particular interest in T'Pring, he was just going along with what his culture expected of him. And he didn't want to die of Pon Farr. So if he found a potential partner on Earth, like Sarek did, he could have already broken the bond with T'Pring, or he could have done exactly what T'Pring did before the events of Amok Time.
Anyway, I don't hear anyone objecting to him cheating on T'Pring with Kirk...
5. Er, this thing:
Kirk appears at just the right moment to throw a wrench into Spock’s logical, by-the-book plan. In doing so, Kirk gives Spock what he really needs: emotional release. Spock takes out all of his anger, frustration, and sorrow on Kirk (and Kirk’s tender throat)
OK, YOU THINK HE SHOULD HAVE KISSED KIRK INSTEAD OF UHURA, WE GET IT.
It's weird that the OP goes on to argue that by being Spock's girlfriend, Uhura usurps McCoy's position in the trio. Either being Spock's girlfriend relegates her to the role of just-a-girlfriend OR elevates her above McCoy but I don't see how it can be both. This just smacks of the "throw everything at it and see what sticks" method of argument.
[Edited to add #3b: It's out of character for Spock and Uhura to break the rules
Right, because they totally never break the rules.]
So yeah. Ship Kirk/Spock all you want - I sure do - but I don't see the point of ragging on Uhura/Spock. They're acting like Harry/Hermione shippers. And I think we can all agree nobody wants to act like Harry/Hermione shippers.
ETA: Here's great post covering the race issues. Which are very important; I hesitate to talk about them myself because I feel like I'm not really qualified to talk about them in detail. But rawles is and she makes excellent points.
ETA: Ohh, the post on K/S linking to the essay in the OP's journal was deleted at the request of the OP who "did not intend to start a ship war." COULD'VE FOOLED ME! She didn't intend for anyone to disagree with her, you mean. Pff. And the OP has f-locked the post in her journal.
