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Jul. 2nd, 2004 01:14 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
gmonkey42On a whim, I've been looking at various feminist and list-feminism-as-an-interest-but-turn-out-to-be-viciously-anti-feminist communities and now I know why the women's rights movement hasn't made more progress. Geeze. It bugs me that a few immature people have the ability to ruin things for everyone. For example, ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
rockmyass_cosmo seems to exist for the sole purpose of being snide about what's posted in kissmyass_cosmo and blaming mental illness on the people who suffer from mental illness. What's the bloody point? If some of them worked for Cosmo or a similar magazine, I'd understand but I don't see anyone there saying they do.
Why do women do this? (I ask, at the risk of being as divisive as the people I'm criticizing). Why do some women get so angry when other women point out examples of sexism in the media? How do they think that affects them negatively? I can understand some people being lucky enough to have avoided experiencing firsthand much sexism (though I suspect it's much more common for people simply to think they've avoided it when really they just haven't noticed it, and that's a whole other problem) and therefore seeing the efforts of the feminist movement as trivial but why the hostility towards it?
For all the talk of 'backlash,' I don't see how, actually looking at the evidence, anyone can believe that the gains we've made in the past century have been bad for women. The conservatives try to say women are worse off now because more is expected of us. And that feminism is to blame for that; there aren't any other social or economic forces making people feel more pressured to have an idealized life. It's no different from when they accuse liberals of being unpatriotic. Liberals want what's best for America and feminists want what's best for society. It's odd that we liberals can admit that both we and conservatives want what's best for America but we just can't agree on how to achieve that, whereas conservatives say they're the only ones who want what's best.
I don't understand how, with so many outspoken feminists online, so many people online can still have such a warped view of us. So, to set the record straight: many of us aren't gay (can't speak for myself here, though), NONE of us hates men (even if some of us migh occasionally say we do, we're just venting. Someone might say in frustration 'I hate my sibling/parent/friend' but we understand that they don't mean that) and most of us really do believe women should have the freedom to be how ever they want, even if being that way reinforces stereotypes and makes things worse for the rest of us.
OK, we'll complain about it if people do that last one, just like we liberals will complain when a conservative says something we don't like but complaining about what someone says or does isn't the same as taking away their right to say or do it. If I say "geeze, I wish she wouldn't do that. What's her problem?" that's entirely different from saying "it should be against the law for her to do that." Even encouraging people to boycott something doesn't take any rights away from the entity that produces it. I get tired of people whining about being banned from a community and claiming that the mods have taken away their right to free speech, those hypocritical, fascist feminazis. NOBODY has the right to express themselves however they feel like, whenever and wherever they want. It's called reasonable limits and it's both appropriate and absolutely necessary. You can't break into somebody's house to give a speech at their dinner table. You can't walk into a kindergarten class and show a pornographic movie. You can't force a TV station to let you go on air to broadcast your message. What makes people think they should be able to join a moderated community, with clearly stated rules about content, promptly violate those rules, then be a martyr for getting kicked out?
I still don't understand what anti-feminists think we want. They accuse us of being motivated by bitterness at being ugly and therefore socially unacceptable but I haven't seen an explanation of what they think we're trying to do. I have gotten the impression of some idea about us wanting all women to be angry and hairy like us so we'll be normal. More often, though, I think they just think we're crazy. That's great. That's the way to resolve differences. Say anyone who disagrees with you is just evil and/or crazy. I don't think they're crazy. I admit that there must be something rational behind their ideas. But they must not have the same information as I do, or their way of interpreting it must be different from mine. I just wish I knew something more specific about it.
rockmyass_cosmo seems to exist for the sole purpose of being snide about what's posted in kissmyass_cosmo and blaming mental illness on the people who suffer from mental illness. What's the bloody point? If some of them worked for Cosmo or a similar magazine, I'd understand but I don't see anyone there saying they do.Why do women do this? (I ask, at the risk of being as divisive as the people I'm criticizing). Why do some women get so angry when other women point out examples of sexism in the media? How do they think that affects them negatively? I can understand some people being lucky enough to have avoided experiencing firsthand much sexism (though I suspect it's much more common for people simply to think they've avoided it when really they just haven't noticed it, and that's a whole other problem) and therefore seeing the efforts of the feminist movement as trivial but why the hostility towards it?
For all the talk of 'backlash,' I don't see how, actually looking at the evidence, anyone can believe that the gains we've made in the past century have been bad for women. The conservatives try to say women are worse off now because more is expected of us. And that feminism is to blame for that; there aren't any other social or economic forces making people feel more pressured to have an idealized life. It's no different from when they accuse liberals of being unpatriotic. Liberals want what's best for America and feminists want what's best for society. It's odd that we liberals can admit that both we and conservatives want what's best for America but we just can't agree on how to achieve that, whereas conservatives say they're the only ones who want what's best.
I don't understand how, with so many outspoken feminists online, so many people online can still have such a warped view of us. So, to set the record straight: many of us aren't gay (can't speak for myself here, though), NONE of us hates men (even if some of us migh occasionally say we do, we're just venting. Someone might say in frustration 'I hate my sibling/parent/friend' but we understand that they don't mean that) and most of us really do believe women should have the freedom to be how ever they want, even if being that way reinforces stereotypes and makes things worse for the rest of us.
OK, we'll complain about it if people do that last one, just like we liberals will complain when a conservative says something we don't like but complaining about what someone says or does isn't the same as taking away their right to say or do it. If I say "geeze, I wish she wouldn't do that. What's her problem?" that's entirely different from saying "it should be against the law for her to do that." Even encouraging people to boycott something doesn't take any rights away from the entity that produces it. I get tired of people whining about being banned from a community and claiming that the mods have taken away their right to free speech, those hypocritical, fascist feminazis. NOBODY has the right to express themselves however they feel like, whenever and wherever they want. It's called reasonable limits and it's both appropriate and absolutely necessary. You can't break into somebody's house to give a speech at their dinner table. You can't walk into a kindergarten class and show a pornographic movie. You can't force a TV station to let you go on air to broadcast your message. What makes people think they should be able to join a moderated community, with clearly stated rules about content, promptly violate those rules, then be a martyr for getting kicked out?
I still don't understand what anti-feminists think we want. They accuse us of being motivated by bitterness at being ugly and therefore socially unacceptable but I haven't seen an explanation of what they think we're trying to do. I have gotten the impression of some idea about us wanting all women to be angry and hairy like us so we'll be normal. More often, though, I think they just think we're crazy. That's great. That's the way to resolve differences. Say anyone who disagrees with you is just evil and/or crazy. I don't think they're crazy. I admit that there must be something rational behind their ideas. But they must not have the same information as I do, or their way of interpreting it must be different from mine. I just wish I knew something more specific about it.
